4 thoughts on “The Truth Runs Out Of Time”

  1. He only misses the truth by half an inch. What actually happened was Bush and Cheney were already planning/starting the Iraq wa (while telling the American people “all options are on the table”) so they pulled all the special forces out of the hunt for bin Laden and sent them to Iraq (before that war began.) That’s indisputable. Whether they let bin Laden go on purpose or by negligence is unknowable.

    I never really believed that they were in on planning 911, but I think they saw it coming and looked the other way because they wanted wars (plural). I’ve also always believed that the size and scope of the attack took them by surprise. But I also remember that not a word was spoken about terrorism until it happened, they were too busy setting the stage to pad the pockets of their big military donors by promoting “star wars” (AKA peace time scare-mongering and war profiteering.)

    It’s not a stretch, then, to noticed that once they had their route to war profiteering secured they didn’t really care either way if bin Laden was caught or killed. I mean, Bush said it publicly (“he’s margarineralized”.)

    It seemed like the “but CLINTON…” defense was trotted out every few minutes for the first months/years of the Bush regime, so I’m sensitive to using the “but BUSH…” defense every time some wing nut attacks Obama. I just don’t want to be like them, which makes me understand why someone intent on “proving” that I “only defend Obama because he’s got a ‘D’ after his name” might think I’m being too soft on him. But the truth is, he’s got a helluva mess to clean up; 2 wars, massive debt, a crushed economy, world-wide damage to our reputation…

    I really do want to give Obama room to move and time to set things right. I have to keep in mind that he knows things I don’t know (i.e. “PDBs”) and it’s not reasonable to expect him to run the country the way I would every single time.

    So, I’ll repeat this; I’m not happy we’re not getting out of Afghanistan, but I also realize getting out this week was never a realistic expectation, any more than “fixing the economy” after 8 years of Bush and the GOP would happen in 6 months. Their mismanagement of that war is the reason we were still there a year ago, and it’s the reason we’re still there, now.

    I just sincerely hope that things can be turned around to the point where we can leave something besides a corrupt government/power vacuum. That really would be a disaster. Not to say “it’s unavoidable”, but only to say “I’ll give him one shot at it,” and this is really the first shot he’s taken.

    As hard as it it, I’ve decided to have his back on this because I’ve never believed cleaning up Bush’s numerous messes would be easy, the “But CLINTON…” defense be damned. (At least Clinton left us a surplus.)

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  2. I didn’t watch the video — so I don’t know what was said other than the quote shown — but I suspect Afghanistan was supposed to become just a big US military base for the purpose of projecting power and attacking countries like Iraq — and maybe later — Iran…

    But — I can’t talk because when speaking to people who are only concerned about US interests — I sometimes frame the rationale for remaining in Afghanistan around our “national security.” It’s not like I can say something to make people care about somebody they don’t care about. The truth of the matter is that if national security was the only reason — I wouldn’t advocate risking a broken fingernail and a rusted penny over continuing that “mission.” I support it — now — only because we bear so much responsibility for al Qaida, the Taliban and the conditions in which the people in that region live and we owe it to them to try to help stabilize the region and open a door for them to self-rule and improved living conditions.

    So — while it’s true that trying to help people recover from the sins of the past will improve our national security — when I frame it that way — I’m using bin Laden and the terrorists as an excuse for something else I want to do — too. So — same crime — different goals.

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  3. “…but I also realize getting out this week was never a realistic expectation…”

    I have met you, so I know how old you are. So I expect you to remember how Nixon went for the “Vietnamization” of the Vietnam war – we’ll train and supply local troops so our boyz won’t have to bleed.

    OK, I’m ready to deal with the lack of collective memory, but wtf? Obama is doing a Nixon – down to the bombing of a neighboring nation (Pakistan) without a declaration of war.

    Please – think this one out. Cut the pablum and the sugarcoating and translate action into ideas – and what you see is Dubya, Kissenger, Truman and Dubya once, yet, again.

    Wake the fuck up!

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  4. “…the Vietnam war”

    I’m not disappointed that you disagree. I’m not particularly surprised by the Vietnam war reference. But, I could have done without the “Wake the fuck up! ”

    Some comparisons to Vietnam are invalid, for a number of reasons. Some comparisons are valid, for others. The Cambodia/Pakistan comparison seems particularly apt. But there is no “Communist (or even “Terrorist”) North Afghanistan” fighting a proxy war for China or Russia in a cold war stand off with the USA. The former Afghanistan government WAS supported by al Qaida, and supported them in return. It literally goes against everything I believe (constitutionally) to say this, but I’m GLAD to see the Taliban out of power. (If that’s not clear, I’m not claiming I’m “right”, I’m just saying it feels good to see those murderous bastards unable to continue to terrorize the people of Afghanistan.) Afghanistan isn’t Vietnam.

    It ALSO goes against everything (constitutionally) I believe about America that we’re intervening in another country’s affairs, but we DID topple their former government. “The Pottery Barn Rule” applies, at least enough for me to be willing to support giving it one more shot at leaving those people with a functioning country. It’s something I’ll watch. Are THEY choosing their government, or are we? That’s more important than insisting that we shouldn’t even try to fix what we broke.

    A reasonable question is, “Would I support this troop build up if Bush had ordered it?” I can answer that easily, unequivocably, and emphatically; NO!

    Bush was evil (or maybe it was Cheney, and Bush was a willing dupe, the effect is the same.) The only thing I recall agreeing with Bush about was doing away with “the marriage penalty”, and he never bothered to do that. Just gave it lip service. My beliefs and Bush’s actions are exactly orthogonal.

    But it wasn’t Bush that ordered the build up. It was Bush who fucked everything up. I’ve agreed with some things Obama has done (and disagreed with others.) My biggest complaint about him is that he’s passive-aggressive, not that he’s evil, or even “less evil”. Just because you’re an “iconoclast” who’s goal is to tear down everything Obama says and does doesn’t make it true that he’s always wrong. He HAS already done some good, some of it even “passive-aggressive” good. We’re not at war in Iran. I think we’d be talking about the Israeli’s bombing them, and the retaliation against Israel, right now if McSame had won.

    So, this is tough, for me. I think the right thing is to announce that we’re getting out, and then getting out. But that opinion DOES ignore the obligation that we have, under the Geneva Conventions, to protect the population. Bush didn’t do it. He didn’t even TRY to do it. He was too busy planning the war in Iraq. So, I’m going to accept that the President who I don’t disagree with 100% of the time knows some things (PDBs) that I don’t know, and give him a chance to set things right.

    You don’t have to agree. It makes no difference. It is what it is. For now.

    But if it’s not working, I’m going to change my tune. Bet on it.

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