QUESTION
July 30, 2010 in Uncategorized by Uniformityville_horror | 20 comments
Why does Obama want to repress information that can only lead to a more just and open government?
I support WikiLeaks. And it is time we were finally, finally, finally told the truth by our government. I am so tired of the lies they tell and the ones I never believe.
July 28, 2010 , WikiLeaks’ Afghan War Diary, And
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/28/wikileaks_founder_julian_assange_transparent_government
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Uniformityville_horror on July 30, 2010 at 5:23 pm
I honestly demand the WAR CRIMES be investigated!! Skip looking for the leaker and punish the real criminals!!
I even speculate and believe that all those missing trillion$ in taxpayer money during Rumsfeld’s Pentagon, and the Rumsfled (jungian slip, with misspell intact) Foundation could well be funding the Taliban to fight against Obama’s armed forces, to make Obama look bad, and to kill off more American lives, which always seemed to be the most blatant objective of Rumsfeld.
Remember the Rumsfeld leaked memo?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/executive/rumsfeld-memo.htmRumsfeld’s war-on-terror memo
Below is the full text of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s memo on the war on terror:
October 16, 2003
TO: Gen. Dick Myers
Paul Wolfowitz
Gen. Pete Pace
Doug Feith
FROM: Donald RumsfeldSUBJECT: Global War on Terrorism
(snip)Do we need a new organization?
How do we stop those who are financing the radical madrassa schools?
Is our current situation such that “the harder we work, the behinder we get”?
It is pretty clear that the coalition can win in Afghanistan and Iraq in one way or another, but it will be a long, hard slog.
Does CIA need a new finding?
Should we create a private foundation to entice radical madradssas to a more moderate course?
What else should we be considering?
Please be prepared to discuss this at our meeting on Saturday or Monday.
Thanks.
———————–Is this what his private foundation is for, manipulating the wars, and how they appear to others?
We all know Rumsfeld is extremely underhanded.
We know that there is a massive amount of missing money from the Pentagon under his DOD rule.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/29/patrick_cockburn_on_missing_billions_inWe know that he allowed Israeli spies to rule the DOD intelligence, and his buddies are dual citizens of great power, the Israeli/Americans Richard Perle and Doug Feith, and … LARRY FRANKLIN!!
We know that he went missing on 9-11 for an unexplained amount of time.
We know that he is willing to pay money to terrorists and factions of opposition against this country.
We know that he is deeply crooked in his politics.
We know that the Bush White House was willing, perhaps desiring, to commit high, high crimes.——————
Like the so-called suicidal fall-guy for the Anthrax Killer (who really wasn’t the killer, and the killer remains yet at large, holding secrets that can never be revealed, at the high cost of justice, …
we will never be told officially who leaked the memos. They will find another suicidal fall-guy for these leaks. And he won’t be able to talk to reporters. The real leaker has more cards in his hand, and our government doesn’t want to call him on it, because there is far more to hide.What I find really, really interesting is that all those government people are saying that the leaks are appalling, yet WikiLeaks didn’t leak anything that hasn’t already been reported in the news, our officials say. Yet they are fighting like hades to get the WikiLeaks owner. Rather contradictory, isn’t it?
Needless to say, I distrust this government, which began with high intensity with Bush and remains, in lower intensity, with Obama
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Uniformityville_horror on August 1, 2010 at 6:07 pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Information Clearing House Newsletter
News You Won’t Find On CNN
July 30, 2010
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“But they don’t use law & they use law for their interests. They don’t go by law, international, federal, local & nothing! They go by whatever is expedient to protect the interests that are at stake.”: Malcolm X, answer to question, Militant Labor Forum, January 7, 1965)=
“Who will show me any Constitutional injunction which makes it the duty of the American people to surrender everything valuable in life, and even life, itself, whenever the purposes of an ambitious and mischievous government may require it? … A free government with an uncontrolled power of military conscription is the most ridiculous and abominable contradiction and nonsense that ever entered into the heads of men.” : Daniel Webster(1782-1852), US Senator Source: Speech in the House of Representatives, January 14, 1814=
“If our fathers, in 1776, had acknowledged the principle that a majority had the right to rule the minority, we should never have become a nation; for they were in a small minority, as compared with those who claimed the right to rule over them.”: Lysander Spooner (1808-1887) Political theorist, activist, abolitionist Source: No Treason, 1867=
“The press is so powerful in its image-making role, it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. This is the press, an irresponsible press.” . . . . “If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.” “At the Audubon, December 13, 1964.” In Malcolm X Speaks: Selected Speeches and Statements, ed. George Breitman, 96-114. New York: Ballantine Books, 1964, 101.==
Number Of Iraqis Slaughtered Since The U.S. Invaded Iraq “1,366,350″
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html=
Number of U.S. Military Personnel Sacrificed (Officially acknowledged) In America’s War On Iraq: 4,731
icasualties.org/oif/Number Of International Occupation Force Troops Slaughtered In Afghanistan : 1,979
=
Cost of War in Iraq & Afghanistan
$1,022,919,408,133
http://www.costofwar.com/VN:F [1.9.3_1094]
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Timbuk3 on July 30, 2010 at 6:20 pm
I seem to have seen a different reaction to the wikileaks thing.
I saw Robert Gibbs, the other day, saying “All we can do is ask them not to publish” things that might jeopardize national security, and the wikileaks guy (can’t think of his name right now) isn’t in jail. And wikileaks guy said they vetted everything so nothing would be “fresher” than about 3 months ago, for the same reason, he didn’t want to endanger Americans.
The other thing is, based on the reaction I’ve seen, there wasn’t really anything “new” in that Afghanistan document dump. Mostly just confirmation of things we already knew.
I can’t believe the missing money isn’t causing a SHIT STORM. Oh, wait, I forgot. It would take a media willing to go after Republicans for that to happen. No, it’s all Lindsay Lohan and Charlie Rangle, right now. What’s a few trillion here and there when it goes to elect Republicans?
BTW, corps are sitting on trillions of dollars, right now. Think they’d consider hiring anyone and lowering the jobless rate? Of course not! That would mean “Obama’s/the Democrats socialist policies” were working…
And Uber-Mega-Corp doesn’t want anything but GOP rule and “trickle down”.
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pnh on July 30, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Before we start to speculate on why — I need an update on the topic. When and how did we learn that Obama wants to “repress information that can only lead to a more just and open government?”
I’m glad the wikileaks guy is choosing to try to be responsible in what he’s doing. While I do believe that too much secrecy enables things like the MIC’s imperialist policies and I’d like to see those policies and the secrecy that enables them end — I don’t want to do it in such a way that we cause greater harm. Just as I believed and still believe we need to be cautious about how we leave Iraq and Afghanistan — I believe we need to cautious in dismantling the MIC’s policies.
I’m not somebody who can address an issue recklessly and absolve myself by placing all the blame on the people who created the mess. The people who created the mess were themselves addressing problems recklessly — so — that excuse could work for them — too — they could say they dealt with a problem they personally didn’t create the best way they could think of. So — if I were president — I wouldn’t handle these things much differently than Obama. And — I suppose people would accuse me of all kinds of evil — too.
As I’ve often said as something I believe can start a thought process leading to a more complex point — the government has information about me that is in no way necessary to a more just and open government. A completely open government with open access to all the information would conflict with our right to privacy, our security, etc. So — the level of openness needs to be tempered by consideration for what’s in the best interest of our common good — our general welfare.
To make government completely open would destroy it as without any constraints on the availability of information to others — we the people would be less cooperative and less willing to use government as a way of addressing our collective issues.
As always — this is just my humble opinion.
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Uniformityville_horror on July 30, 2010 at 8:42 pm
I believe that we are not a government OF THE PEOPLE without transparency.
No secrets from THE PEOPLE are allowed, that is, if they want us to pay our taxes.If they can live without our taxes, then yes, they can keep their secrets.
It is high time our government rose above the wars and violent antics that require secrets. It is high time our government evolved to something greater, something up-front and transparent, and diplomatic.
The one good thing about these wars is that they are breaking our government down. This government has moved a long way from the ideals that started it. It is high time we cleaned out our own government, assessed the situation it is in, purged the crooks from the system, and began again.
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Uniformityville_horror on July 30, 2010 at 8:33 pm
Define national security! Is it the security of the public face of our government? Does it jeopardize our American soil?
What is national security?
And why do other countries really want these leaks to happen?I don’t watch or read mainstream news anymore. And I don’t listen to it.
I am tired of people scamming me about what is happening in this world.1 in 10p people KNOW (GNOW) a lie when they hear it. I am one of those people, I like to think. While Obama may have had good intent when he began, he has sold out to something someone else did earlier, something someone else thought earlier, something someone else decided to hide earlier. He is not the transparency person he used to be. He needs to get his government workers and the shadow government into some kind of order, … and RULE THEM.
It is high time we prosecuted Americans for the war crimes they have committed.
There is no trickle down. It is part of the scam, the public perception that there is one.
If they didn’t want to endanger Americans, them why the hades are we still IN TWO WARS??!! Our own government is deliberately and consciously endangering Americans. And for what? What is the real objectives of these wars?
The tower of Babylon in fiber optics?
The oil?
Revenge?None are worth the lives the USA DOD is risking for it.
Where did Rumsfeld get his money to fund factional fighters?
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Timbuk3 on July 30, 2010 at 8:47 pm
“What is national security?”
I’d say it’s anything that protects American lives from obvious death threats or threats of taking over our government by force. The teabaggers, for example, are a threat to national security.
Agree with you 100% on the media, prosecuting war crimes, trickle down, misuse of the military to protect oil company’s/corporation’s interests. I also agree 100% with Smedley Butler that War Is A Racket.
Where I part ways with “some on the left” is when they suggest that “we” should just walk away from a country after “we” broke it. I didn’t want Bush to start that fucking war in Iraq because I KNEW we’d have a hard time getting out of it. But, it’s the “starting” thing that should get the blame, not the “leaving responsibly” thing. IMO.
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Uniformityville_horror on July 30, 2010 at 8:55 pm
When a government places itself before the people it is governing, there is a huge problem.
I just don’t feel so protective of a government that doesn’t want to tell us the truth.
Bush should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
The best news we are going to get on this topic is outside the USA.
30 July 2010 Last updated at 19:04 ET
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10825183Afghan leak: Wikileaks’ Assange denies ‘blood on hands’
Julian Assange 26.7.10 Julian Assange says there is no evidence US informants have been harmedThe founder of the website Wikileaks has rejected US claims he has blood on his hands after releasing 90,000 leaked classified documents on the Afghan war.
Julian Assange told the BBC there was no evidence that any informants had died as a result of the leaks.
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Timbuk3 on July 30, 2010 at 10:43 pm
“When a government places itself before the people it is governing, there is a huge problem.”
I don’t think that’s really our problem in America. In America, big money buys politicians, who then place big money’s interests ahead of ours. I’d support a constitutional amendment that says “the constitution doesn’t apply to election laws”. Millionaires shouldn’t have any advantage, at all, over my next-door neighbor when running for public office.
I didn’t know about Mullen saying Assange had “blood on his hands”, but Mullen isn’t “Obama” or “the Democrats”. I wonder if they’ve had a “back room discussion” since he said that? It’s a stupid thing to say, even for practical military reasons, like “don’t tell the enemy where to look”.
I’d like to see Cheney prosecuted even more than Bush, but it’s not going to happen. “I was acting on the best advice of my lawyers” WILL hold up in court. It sucks, but it is what it is.
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Oralloy on July 31, 2010 at 1:15 am
Taliban hunt Wikileaks outed Afghan informers
By Jonathan Miller
Updated on 30 July 2010Exclusive: The Taliban has issued a chilling warning to Afghans, alleged in secret US military files leaked on the internet to have worked as informers for the Nato-led coalition, telling Channel 4 News “US spies” will be hunted down and punished.
Speaking by telephone from an undisclosed location, Zabihullah Mujahid told Channel 4 News that the insurgent group will investigate the named individuals before deciding on their fate.
“We are studying the report,” he said, confirming that the insurgent group already has access to the 92,000 intelligence documents and field reports.
“We knew about the spies and people who collaborate with US forces. We will investigate through our own secret service whether the people mentioned are really spies working for the US. If they are US spies, then we know how to punish them.”
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/uk/taliban+hunt+wikileaks+outed+afghan+informers/3727667
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Uniformityville_horror on July 31, 2010 at 10:31 am
Meanwhile, that Taliban continues it’s production of poppies and it’s control on the Afghanistani government.
And it looks like they have found a patsy, not the real leaker, for all this hullaballo:
http://www.bradleymanning.org/I support WikiLeaks.
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Timbuk3 on August 1, 2010 at 12:23 am
Something (for me) to think about.
Remembering that massive “trace” installed in San Francisco, why is it OK to spy on us? By “us” I mean people who have committed no crime. “Warrantless wiretaps”.
So, I have to respect Assange for putting his “insurance” on the web.
This isn’t really a “position statement”, yet, just something I’m thinking about. I can’t, in good conscience, support a “leak” that can be directly connected to the death of someone working on behalf of “national security”, as I defined it above. I was outraged by the Plame outing because the fucking traitor Cheney put her life on the line, and almost certainly got some of her contacts killed, so he could start a war.
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pnh on August 1, 2010 at 5:05 pm
I’ve caught up a bit more — and therefore thought about it all a bit more.
Here’s my verdict. This wikileaks thing as it pertains to Afghanistan is a childish, attention-seeking stunt.
As even the anti-Obama folks realize — there was nothing conceptually new in that information or even the earlier video — other than details that will serve not to educate anybody on what our government is doing but will only serve to put people’s lives at risk, make the situation in Afghanistan more difficult as well as having the potential to affect non-Afghanistan matters.
Did the jackasses think about the potential effect on left leaning Israelis working with left leaners in our government on an I/P peace agreement? Did they think about the potential effect on discussions with other governments regarding things like disarming/eliminating nuclear weapons? I’ll bet you they didn’t consider the effect on discussions with people within repressive governments about things like gay/women rights — either. Sometimes diplomats have discussions with “friendly” officials about how best to proceed. True enough — there was always the potential for “secrets” to get out — but an incident like this will drive it home and make people more skittish about cooperative efforts with US officials.
Hell, no. They didn’t stop to consider the consequences of their actions because all they could see is I want to stick it to the US government and be a hero to other jackasses.
Now — how much does it actually help their objective? It will only drive the “secrets” deeper. There will be fewer memos — fewer people in the loop — fewer people who might learn of undesirable or questionable activities and be able to do something about it. The military will keep a more careful eye on it’s less seasoned/proven members — that’s all.
There are some things that simply don’t lend themselves to complete transparency and it’s anal to want to throw out all “secrecy” because of people who use it for wrongful activity. These people validate Republicans who want to end public assistance because some people commit fraud.
These people would be criminals’ best friends. How effective could police be without secrets? The government has lists of women/children shelters — too. Let’s publish that list — afterall — just because a woman shows up bleeding and bruised with a kid with a broken arm claiming to have escaped from the husband who did those things to them — how do we know that’s true? Until proven guilty — that father has every right to know where that possible liar took his kid. So what if he might use that information to kill them and everybody there with them — there can be no exceptions to innocent until proven guilty and the government can’t have secret information because we the people need to know everything “The Government” knows.
I really don’t like absolutes. These would be champions of the people are like religious nuts. If only we would live by God’s/their rules — there would be peace and harmony and no need for things like secrets and police and armies — etc. Therefore — everything they do is good because they’re doing it in the name of God/their rules — and all the consequences are the fault of all the evil folks out there who won’t accept God/their rules.
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Uniformityville_horror on August 1, 2010 at 6:27 pm
I want all to live by universal peace rules. We should tell our government that this is not acceptable behavior and will no longer be funded. I demand PEACE, and to stop the senseless killing.
I don’t think it is attention-seeking at all. I think they have the right to release the info that our government has deemed what we should not know, but are entitled to know.
We fund this government. Transparency is a necessity.
We really need to know what is going on within the DOD. We fund these guys. Our hard-earned dollars are funding these works. Heck, they didn’t want us to know about the child porn ring in the DOD either, but the word got out. Needless to say, some of these “in the know” military guys are NOT good guys. The complete disregard of peaceful practices, complete disregard for law, is rampant in the DOD. Let’s get this cleaned out and prosecuted to the fullest and longest extent of USA laws.This is NOT about the Obama thing. This is about a government that doesn’t want us to know what is going on, yet still wanting us to gladly, whole-heartedly support the war crimes that are being done.
All things our government does should be transparent, with no exceptions.
The basic premise to my sentiment is that we, The People, are not separate from the Afghanis. We are all among the family of man. What is done to them should be done to us. Let’s apply the golden rule here.
And let’s not tolerate the war crimes presented by the leaks. This should not be about the leaks. It should be about the war crimes we can now witness, albiet not even in real time. This is about taking a stand and telling our government, one that i s supposed to be run by The People, that this is not acceptable behavior and will not be tolerated.
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pnh on August 2, 2010 at 5:12 am
Here’s the thing about the value of punishing the guilty as proof of “your” good character — Saddam Hussein was executed because George Bush said we were such great people we couldn’t let Saddam remain in power and it was worth hundreds of thousands of lives to take down Saddam and prove what fine champions of justice Americans are.
And well — we know how well that war proved how strongly America despises torture and abuse, etc. We know how well that big show of virtue worked to make sure nobody else was ever tortured.
George Bush made plenty of public speeches about how evil it is to torture people — even as he was torturing people.
So — what good did George Bush making sure the “guilty” was punished prove or accomplish? None. Even people who originally thought it a good thing to remove Saddam aren’t so sure about that anymore. Bush’s actions served his self interest.
The same thing goes for the fixation with outing and prosecuting current war criminals and alleged war criminals. It would satisfy some people’s personal needs but it wouldn’t necessarily do ANYTHING to stop or prevent future war crimes. A future administration could certainly learn from the mistakes that brought Bush’s actions to light and work to avoid them — and continue torturing people. After all — it wasn’t like Bush invented the techniques and the black sites. They were there when he took office. He was different from past administrations in that he was cocky and reckless — and got caught. You don’ t prove your own virtue by punishing somebody else — you prove it by not doing those things.
To that end — I’m not about to sacrifice lives and other political causes at the alter of going after Bush/Cheney. That would make me just as obsessed with “justice” as they were and wouldn’t prove my personal virtue any more than it proved theirs. I’m more concerned with staying in office and putting widespread policies in place to try to STOP these things from happening.
The rationale that it’s not about any damage the leakers might cause — it’s about rooting out and standing up against war crimes is very much like the rationale that it’s not about the “enhanced interrogation” techniques — it’s about the rooting out and standing up to the evil terrorists. As they say — two wrongs don’t make right. Wrongs done in the name of doing good are still wrongs.
Who is injured because we’re not prosecuting Bush/Cheney? Whose life would be saved if we disregard our laws and render the value of the constitution and the rule of law meaningless in the name of prosecuting Bush/Cheney?
It’s not important to atone for past mistakes — that doesn’t add anything to anybody’s life. All that is a symbolic after the fact gesture — it doesn’t serve anything other than a psychological purpose. It makes the vengeful feel good that the guilty were punished — that’s all. It’s important to try not to repeat them — trying not to do it again does affect people’s lives.
The only “casualties” of not prosecuting Bush/Cheney are the dashed hopes of people who wanted them punished. Those hopes aren’t a priority for me. The only hopes I’m concerned about those for the future — facing reality and doing something to try to help prevent torture and abuse. That’s what trying to leave the people of Afghanistan with some kind of structure is about — trying to leave ordinary citizens with some capacity to protect themselves from the torture and abuse of warlords WE HELPED ESTABLISH. I am trying to do for the Afghans what I hope they would do for me if the shoe were on the other foot. I would hope they wouldn’t ruin my country and leave me at the mercy of bloodthirsty tyrants with little or no ability to protect myself.
I don’t “tolerate” war crimes. I accept that I can’t undo those that have already happened and focus on trying to prevent them in the future. I get no satisfaction from punishing the guilty after the fact — it doesn’t undo any damage. I prefer to devote my energy to keeping torture and abuse from becoming a fact.
Are we doing that? Yes. Even before Bush left office — due to the efforts of Democrats — we made changes in personnel and started programs in the military to help prevent abuses by soldiers. The Obama administration doesn’t have any “enhanced interrogation” programs going on and he’s increased the efforts to promote better behavior and address the mental health of our soldiers.
Making a statement is not important enough to make it the only cause — to make it so important that we LOSE the office and the ability to make changes to people who think it’s OK for “good” people to torture “evil” people. I’m not willing to risk it all to make that statement. There’s no payoff in that statement worthy of the risks to future military policy, foreign policy, health policy, the economy, etc.
And I realize that some of my wording might seem a little harsh — but I’m tired of people who disagree with Obama and the strategies I support assigning all kinds of evil to his — and by extension — my character and motives. That we don’t choose what you think we should in no way means that you are more virtuous or honest than we are — that we “tolerate” war crimes and lie when we speak against them.
While I may speculate on the underlying emotions driving people’s decisions — I certainly wouldn’t attack their overall character over decisions I don’t agree with.
Not once have I suggested that people who don’t agree with me don’t care about what happens to the Afghans. I may have said I don’t think they gave the consequences any or enough thought — but I never said they don’t care. We just have different priorities for whatever reason — and as evidenced by what you believe to be your way of saying you care being different from my way of saying I care — that concern for them just isn’t reflected the same way.
It’s not that simple. There is no guaranteed ONE good and honest way to proceed. I don’t aim for absolutely “right” answers — I’m not the authority on “right.” I aim for the answers that I believe have the most potential for positive developments. Of course — I suppose that’s how people who come up answers I object to would describe their answers — too.
So — to conclude — no — I don’t think this is a story about good vs. evil — a “hero” taking on the “bad guys”…it’s not about the righteous standing up to the unrighteous. It’s a story about different people having different opinions and emotions — that’s all.
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Uniformityville_horror on August 20, 2010 at 10:02 am
“Buried among the 92,000 classified documents released Sunday by WikiLeaks is some intriguing evidence that the U.S. military in Afghanistan has adopted a PR strategy that got it into trouble in Iraq: paying local media outlets to run friendly stories.
….In one of the WikiLeaks documents, a PRT [provincial reconstruction team] member reports delivering “12 hours of PSYOP Radio Content Programming” to two radio stations in the province of Ghazni in 2008, and paying one of them “$3,900 for Radio Content Programming air time for the month of October”….Two other messages seem to show U.S. soldiers referring to local Afghan media as extensions of their own units rather than independent reporters.”
http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/07/second-look-wikileaksSame as in this country.
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Timbuk3 on August 20, 2010 at 10:34 am
I was pleased to see that Fox “News” donated a million bucks to the Republican Governors Association. There is no longer any doubt that they are part and parcel of the GOP. They don’t publish “News”, they publish GOP propaganda.
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Uniformityville_horror on August 20, 2010 at 6:00 pm
No doubt about that.
Went to see despicable me today. Was a fun movie. Children do change your perspective on the world.
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Uniformityville_horror on August 21, 2010 at 11:13 am
And now the CIA is trying to bring Assange on trumped up rape charges.
They tried to do this to Scott Ritter too. But he won, the charge thrown out of court immediately.
These are the acts the CIA is reduced to, this and creating airplane accidents, auto accidents and faked suicides.
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Timbuk3 on August 21, 2010 at 12:45 pm
I saw that there was a Swiss warrant out for him, then I saw this:
Warrant for Wikileaks’ Assange cancelled.
Seems to be real “fluid” right now.
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