aren’t they all devils these days?
Dissent is the name of the game here!!
WEDNESDAY, JUL 18, 2012 08:18 AM CDT
Obama’s killings challenged again
A legal challenge to the Obama assassination program should create common ground for its supporters and critics
BY GLENN GREENWALD
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Oh yeah, and THIS has got to give you Obama Warm-Fuzzies like we see here so frequently!!
Big Daddy Altruism, right? LOL, LOL!
Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens
Kiss my pretty po-po, you Oval Office MF!
I have read somewhere that American politics has created such divisiveness that it rivals that of the Civil War. Let’s just walk the middle ground, shall we?
Both side of American political parties have their dark sides. Both of them. Let’s don’t accept it from either side.-
The National Defense Authorization Act, in your link from December 2011, has been pretty well hashed out.
Key points, IIRC, is that the GOP wrote it, Obama didn’t really have a choice but to sign it, and it doesn’t really allow for detention of Americans arrested in America. The last point may not be quite correct, it may be that Obama signed an order saying it couldn’t be done, but I’m not going back to old posts from those days to get it exactly right.
At any rate, both “sides” may “do it”, but one side does it so frequently and with such glee in comparison to the other side that it makes the other side look good.
Republicans are evil.
Let’s just walk the middle ground, shall we?
Between center-right and standing on the edge of a right-wing cliff with one foot on the ground and the other in the air, arms flapping wildly to keep from teetering off into a RW abyss?
I think not. “The middle” is too right wing, for me.
I love a line from the new HBO show “The Newsroom”;
“The truth is the center.”
Truth is, I don’t defend everything that Obama does. I just like to point out that Mitt E. Sketch will take this country off the cliff, and take the rest of the world with us.
I’m far more interested in making small gains in the direction I want to go than I am in giving up entirely and saying “Go ahead and kill me, and everyone else who makes less that $250K/year”.
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If it still stands, it has not been adequately hashed out.
Obama is as bad as Bush.-
“Obama is as bad as Bush.”
No he’s not. Obama signed an executive order banning torture.
Not that that’s the only thing, but it’s enough to make him “better than Bush”.
Stop with the false equivalency.
Or have you forgotten how bad Bush was?
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“If it still stands, it has not been adequately hashed out.:
The law stands. The military’s ability to detain Americans, written into the law by the GOP, does not. Thanks to Obama.
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Obama statement on signing the National Defense Authorization Act.
I’ll let you read it for yourself.
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“Obama statement on signing the National Defense Authorization Act.”
Another example of how Obama abuses the constitution?
“During the administration of President George W. Bush, there was a controversy over the President’s use of signing statements, which critics charged was unusually extensive and modified the meaning of statutes. The practice predates the Bush administration, however, and has since been continued by the Obama administration.[1] In July 2006, a task force of the American Bar Association stated that the use of signing statements to modify the meaning of duly enacted laws serves to “undermine the rule of law and our constitutional system of separation of powers”.[2] In fact, the Constitution does not authorize the President to use signing statements to circumvent any validly enacted Congressional Laws, nor does it authorize him to declare he will disobey such laws (or parts thereof). When a bill is presented to the President, the Constitution (Art. I) provides three choices: do nothing, sign the bill, or (if he disapproves of the bill) veto it in its entirety and return it to the House in which it originated, along with his written objections to it….”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signing_statement
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I could have picked any of your other insulting posts (insulting my intelligence, at the very least), but I’ll just pick this one.
Did you not live in the US when you were in High school, or did you not take High school civics?
“The practice predates the Bush administration, however, and has since been continued by the Obama administration.”
Do you know what the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) IS???
Check out this section: “Effect of administrative law“.
The rules are treated by the courts as being as legally binding as statutory law, provided the regulations are a reasonable interpretation of the underlying statutes.
So the POTUS has the
rightresponsibility to interpret statute and make a statement about how he will implement it.Which leaves “the use of signing statements to modify the meaning of duly enacted laws” and “the Constitution does not authorize the President to use signing statements to circumvent any validly enacted Congressional Laws, nor does it authorize him to declare he will disobey such laws” as where Obama may have done something unconstitutional. Find the section in the signing statement I linked to where he did that (or admit your rhetorical question was designed to push people in the wrong direction).
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Tim, I have never once thought of u as fascist. I am saying that is the direction our us gov is headed.
How would the GOP interpret this law? Hmmm. You willing to give them this kind of power?
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“How would the GOP interpret this law? Hmmm.>
In the worst possible way.
“You willing to give them this kind of power?”
Absolutely not.
Let’s review.
The GOP passes a heinous law.
The POTUS is bad because he signs it, because if he doesn’t he leaves lower middle class Americans, stuck in the military because Bush and the GOP left the job market in shambles, hanging?
So the conclusion is “fuck Obama”?
Look, uni, I understand that you live in KS. Sam Brownback is governor of KS, so I understand that you’re not a stupid redneck, but you’re SURROUNDED by stupid rednecks of the worst kind; fundamentalist quasi-”christian” stupid rednecks.
I’m trying to give you ammunition, here.
Obama didn’t single-handedly come up with the idea of indefinite detention for Americans. It was FORCED ON HIM, by the worst congress in history, and it’s not a coincidence that congress is ruled by a minority extremist faction of teabaggers.
The baggers are fucking up my kid’s future.
You’d better believe that I’m pissed off about that.
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Pee Ess
John Boner sucks teabagger cock.
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YEAH
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YEAH, Brownback is bad, very bad.
But he reads the local paper, thank all the gods he claims to love. There he is bagged on in a serious manner.
This town is a gem in the state. But it is getting a serious gerrymandering that will loosen the Dem foothold here. Seriously, I can’t cry about that. The Extreme Leftist Dems are as crooked as the Religious Rite, … just as dishonest.
There was a time when I had a list to give to people of all the Religious Rite companies and businesses that should be boycotted in this town. It was nice to see several of them fall into ruin, by their own accord and no one else’s.
When the GOP gets too atrocious and insulting, I merely accuse them of alcoholism and point them to this site: http://www.preventragedy.com/. It really does shut them up, if they have been even slightly insulting, and then if you mention that Bush seemed like a real great guy to have a beer with.
I am off to Mom’s and then to the farm, where I got massive amounts of ticks the last time I was there. I don’t want that sycamore to di, so I must water it, like I did this spring.
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“I could have picked any of your other insulting posts ”
it wasn’t my intention.
“Did you not live in the US when you were in High school, or did you not take High school civics?”
I did both.
There is much debate about signing statements. But when I say that Obama is abusing the Constitution, I mean above all that he is pissing on the 4th through 7th Amendments. As for signing statements, the fact that such a thing has been abused before doesn’t make it right.
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I have my doubts you want the truth about your main post.
The truth is, bringing a lawsuit has nothing to do with … wait for it.
The truth.
Before I continue, I did a mea culpa a few months back regarding targeting American citizens overseas without trial. I can see the “constitutional difficulty” of the situation. You’ve got a guy who’s vocally targeting me and my family for death by fanatics, who’s also an American citizen. So how do you try him in absentia? Is it a “speedy public trial” if you take him to court when he refuses to appear? But ultimately you have to view the constitution as protecting the rights of the minority, because the majority need no protection, so make no exceptions.
Ahem…
I can bring a lawsuit, and Glenn (who I actually respect at times, but not this time, not with this sensational article) knows it. Doesn’t mean I’ll win.
This lawsuit will go nowhere, and Glenn knows it.
Glenn also knows that lawsuits can be brought for political reasons. Like lawsuits brought during election years. Am I the only one who’s curious about who’s providing the legal representation to the plaintiffs? Glenn’s obviously not. He didn’t say a word about them.
Speaking of Glenn, he’s making his living off this issue. He’s been talking about it for years. Doesn’t he have any new material? Just keep bringing up this old issue, that’s no longer relevant since the “American terrorist” shit stain is dead, because it brings in the pay check?
I suppose I could see an argument that “yeah, he’s dead, but it’s not FIXED”, but only if that argument is accompanied by a suggestion for how to fix it. Otherwise, it’s more of a political hit piece at this point.
I know a way to fix it, BTW.
Shrink the GOP down to the point where we can drown the party in a bathtub. Get some REAL legislators in, who will pass laws about this.
But that’s work.
It’s much easier to sit on the sidelines and complain.
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PS – If there’s any doubt about this, I DO NOT SUPPORT THE “UNITARY PRESIDENCY” promoted by Bush/Cheney (R, Assholes).
I can’t even fucking imagine Romneybot with this kind of power, much less that he wouldn’t use it in an even more offensive way.
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I sure do like you. Magnesium.
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Again, I beleive there will never be another terrorist attack like 9-11. The Americans involved with this one didn’t get off scott-free. For me, and for 65% of the nation, we are not being told the truth about 9-11. You want truth, dear, then demand it there!!
Good gods, I don’t care about Glenn. I care more about the issue.
You think that losing your freedoms is a good way to keep you safe.
Yeah, you are OK with the strange trade off. (Clicks heels, right arm upraised to fascism).
http://www.ehow.com/info_8074761_early-warning-signs-fascism.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104×4065512I am not OK with it. I don’t want to be safe if it means being contained, restrained, detained, retained, domained, retrained, coup de mained.
Why have both of these measures, to kill an American anytime you want anywhere you want for whatever reason you want if you are president, AND to be able to detain any citizen anytime you want anywhere you want for whatever reason you want if you are president? Hell, you don’t even have to be president now to get this done.
Look at this on a global level (not the physical territory but the conceptual level) on American Rights.
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Our own government is doing the very same thing to us that they say the terrorist want from us, to remove our American rights.
They aren’t doing this to terrorists. They are doing this to US, … WE, THE PEOPLE!!!How safe are you from your government?
You have one seriously irrational trust in Obama. If this were Bush, and you know this is something Bush would have done, what would your stance be then on these issues?One more point: At most, we have Obama for another four years, and I really think that is what is going to happen. But these laws remain until they are removed. Are you going to allow people like Sarah Palin to hold these comprehensive and destructive powers in her greedy, power-mongering but brainless hands, … people like Mitt Romney, … or, oh gods, the heavens seriously forbid, Sam Brownback, … or Tom Delay, … or whoever buys the presidential election next? Come one, have some foresight. These are scary powers. They should not be held by the insane and zealot-bitten. There is no question that Obama will not be the only one to apply them in our future.
I suggest you study Nazi Germany and how it all came about to be as it was. And then learn from it.
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It’s sad how quickly Obama haters descend to personal insults in these threads when I call them on their bullshit.
Calling me a fascist: “You think that losing your freedoms is a good way to keep You safe.
Yeah, You are OK with the strange trade off. (Clicks heels, right arm upraised to fascism).”Accusing me of having … I”m not sure. Inability to see the flaws in our POTUS? Some kind of “faith” that revolves around him? At any rate, this is pretty insulting: “You have one seriously irrational trust in Obama.”
Asking me, following on the heels of the insult just above, if I have a double standard: “If this were Bush, and you know this is something Bush would have done, what would your stance be then on these issues?”
Did you miss this?
http://www.timbuk3.com/discuss/?p=8401&cpage=1#comment-11319
I did a mea culpa a few months back regarding targeting American citizens overseas without trial. I can see the “constitutional difficulty” of the situation. You’ve got a guy who’s vocally targeting me and my family for death by fanatics, who’s also an American citizen. So how do you try him in absentia? Is it a “speedy public trial” if you take him to court when he refuses to appear? But ultimately you have to view the constitution as protecting the rights of the minority, because the majority need no protection, so make no exceptions.
“I suggest you study Nazi Germany and how it all came about to be as it was. And then learn from it.
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And I want my American rights back.
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Other than your right to live abroad as a sworn enemy of the US, a right that I agree you have, but I have to admit I’d like to see removed, what rights have you lost since Obama took office?
I only ask because you seem intent on portraying our President as a monster that he clearly isn’t.
Mitt Romney is a monster. A lying politician who won’t even tell us what he wants to do if he becomes President, much less how much he short-changed America in the past.
I can tell you what right you’ve gained. The right to health care, even if Mitt rMoney wins and you lose everything.
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Obama is going to win. You have to stop stressing about it.
Do you want Mitt Romney to have these powers?
Stop focusing on the next four years, and focus on the next four decades.Stop focusing on Obama with regards to this issue. Think about this in a more global manner. My point again, Obama’s time in the Oval Office is limited, four more years.
Do you trust these powers with all the people who follow him into the Oval Office, … most specifically since we know that the Oval Office can now be purchased? Remember, Bush sat in that office too. And he is totally insane (well,stream of thought, he hears God talk to him, while mine is contained to my sister’s voice, LOL! and I don’t have a history of alcoholism, nor drink that much. BTW, where is my freestate oatmeall stout?).
In this town, regardless of the Presidential orders or Patriot Act, the law enforcers have to go thru a local judge, regardless of national laws. If they don’t, everything that they do to us can be rolled back and seriously challenged in court. It took a long, big fight to get to that state of American Rights, but it got done, thanks to the bald-face lying of Kris Kobach. This city denounced the Patriot Act with a bill of it’s own to counter it.
And again, I find that Obama is no better than Bush, and bush was horrible and criminal.
I already had the right to health care. The local hospital is city-owned, Despite the best efforts of Columbia HCA and the LJWORLD. Since I live in this county, I have the right to health care. YOu know, there are indeed alternative ways of doing things. People have to be smart. Move to where the conditions address what you need from your community. Think about things a little bit more!! -
“Other than your right to live abroad as a sworn enemy of the US, a right that I agree you have, but I have to admit I’d like to see removed, what rights have you lost since Obama took office?”
I didn’t want to get into this conversation, but this line was quite a strawman.
Remember when we were against some of Dubya’s excesses? It wasn’t just because Dubya was in power, there was always the question of precedent. If a purported moderate such as Obama would emplace such an unconstitutional policy – without ANY oversight whatsoever – what would a Romney or some future cyborg do with it?
Obama hasn’t stopped most of Dubya’s abuses. As for secrecy, he’s sealed the lid even tighter – and the torture bullshit is almost worse, he’s pinned medals on his chest while returning US torture to the same-ol outsourcing of the past.
But killing US citizens (as if they’re any different from any other person, but that’s just me askin’) without ANY oversight, on the basis of what the executive “says” (gubmints never lie, and dem gubmints less – since Tonkin, no?) is UNACCEPTABLE. That’s the sort of things that revolutions can use as a causus belli.
So save the “rebubs are devils” routine for those who believe in the Easter Bunny. This is “hope Obama” making an egregious precedent. Deal with it. And, perhaps, react.
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I am not saying he should not vote for Obama. I am saying he needs to put the pressure on Obama to move things to a more Constitutional-backed set of conditions.
Force Obama to roll the Patriot Act back. to erase what he did on Dec. 31, 2011, and to empower The People, not diminish their rights to the powers we were given with the US Constitution.
Put the pressure on Obama.
Let’s do a revolution. I so ready and willing to be on the front lines, protecting those tho can really rally people. I would be the first to die for the return of our US Constitution and the US Bill of Rights.
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I am out to get the hell into dodge. Literally. The iPad from here on out for several days.
Back the the farm! Glorious!
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