IMO, the Democratic party is not perfect. I don’t defend everything Barack Obama does. I don’t defend everything that ANY member of the Democratic party does.
Again, IMO, the only perfect candidate is me. IMO.
But the GOP is perfectly evil.
Do away with SS? Check.
Do away with medicare? Check.
Take our retirement accounts? Check.
Take our pensions? Check.
Declare this to be a “christian” nation, in defiance of the constitution and everything that’s holy? Check.
Deny voting rights? Check.
Gawd, the list goes on. Do I really have to?
Fuck the environment? Check.
A woman’s right to a legal medical procedure? Check.
Tax cuts for people making more than $250K/year matter more than middle class tax cuts? Check.
It just goes on and on. The GOP is in full-on assault mode against “us”.
The Democratic party isn’t perfect. Give me a green party or progressive party who can defeat the GOP candidate (who is ALWAYS well-funded by some rich fucker). I’ll vote for them.
But I’ll ALWAYS vote to defeat the GOP.
And I ALWAYS vote.
Tags: Bush Legacy, christo-fascist zombie brigade, elections, GOP Hypocrisy, open thread, Teabaggers
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Don’t ask me why I “faithfully” support Obama and the Dems.
Ask me why I think the GOP is bad for America.
But if you do, be prepared to listen for a LONG time.
It’s not always about “winning” (thank you, Charlie Sheen). Sometimes it’s about not losing. Which is what allowing the GOP to win is.
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“Sometimes it’s about not losing. Which is what allowing the GOP to win is.”
The 15M and OWS movements are basically about people who reject the false dichotomies offered by the “two” party systems here, there and elsewhere.
Slowing down egregious changes isn’t enought anymore, because experience teaches us that whenever we reject the worse alternative, the better one doesn’t reverse the damage. Needless to say, it doesn’t even attempt to move in the right direction – it seems to be content to execute a holding action (as long as it doesn’t piss off the worse alternative too much).
Yes, the GOP sucks worse than the GOP lite. So what if you reject both?
I do.
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Yep.
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“reject both”
Did you mean to throw in “there’s no difference between the two parties”, too?
Oh, never mind. You did.
“false dichotomies offered by the “two” party systems”
I don’t like the persistent message that “you have no where to turn”. It sounds too much like “abandon all hope, all ye who enter here”. “Defeated”, if you will.
“the better one doesn’t reverse the damage”
I get so tired of rebutting such utter horse shit.
I’m just not going to bother, any more, to list the things “the better one(s)” have done in the past decade or more to:
A) stop the GOP from destroying the country, and
B) turn (or attempt to turn in the face of unconscionable, unprecedented GOP obstruction) things back around and UNDO the damage Bush and the GOP have done.
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Please
Let the UNDOING Begin.Thr wasn’t any undoing during the last three years!
Hope is indeed lost!
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When I was an undergrad I took a course in abnormal psychology. I learned of an experiment where a sane guy checked himself into a mental hospital to see if he could fool the staff.
He did.
However, he didn’t fool the patients. One after another they approached him. “There’s nothing wrong with you, is there?”
For some reason that “learning” popped into my head after reading this board for the past couple of days.
“Thr wasn’t any undoing during the last three years!”
Patently false and absurd on it’s face.
I said earlier that I was tired of “making lists” (not exactly what I said, but what I meant).
Obama ended torture.
It’s a fact, and that one fact alone marks the statement about “no undoing” as untrue.
“The center is the truth”, and more and more I find myself wanting to dissociate myself from “the fringe” on either side of me.
I’m trying to come up with the analogy to the experiment I listed. I think it’s this; when “the staff” (literally everyone I speak to every day) thinks I’m sane, and the inmates (literally everyone who posts here) accuses me of being a fascist, lectures me on “the terd way” (which I’ve obviously been aware of for AT LEAST the decade “the lecturer” has known me),
Notice that comma?
I was going to go on, but I see no reason to insult anyone (any more).
YOU (all of you, not just uni), are destructive antagonists, bent on sowing dissent.
Hmmm…
That was probably pretty insulting. And I wasn’t done with that ‘graph, either.
There’s no threat, here. I’m not going to “shut down the board”, or start banning or censoring people. Rec each other’s petty posts all you want to.
But I honestly can’t relate to most of you, any more.
I asked “Other than your right to live abroad as a sworn enemy of the US, a right that I agree you have, but I have to admit I’d like to see removed, what rights have you lost since Obama took office?”
Alvy called it “a strawman“, but I noticed that HE DIDN’T ANSWER THE QUESTION. No one touched it. It was “radioactive” because it didn’t fit the “both parties are the same and Obama is the devil” narrative ya’all want to build. I’m not inclined to let pussy tactics like that go, any more.
ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION or I’m going to check myself out of this asylum.
NOT closing the board. NOT “GBCW”. Just giving ya’all fair warning that, if not tomorrow, the day is rapidly approaching when I’m taking the gloves off, and I suspect you won’t like it.
I was pretty good at rebutting fringe RW lunatics on the old titty board.
I’m thinking it might be time to get in some practice rebutting fringe LW lunatics on the new titty board.
This dissatisfaction with America isn’t sitting well with me, any more.
It might be “nationalism” due to where I was born, but I LIVE HERE and I haven’t given up, yet. I’d rather not move. I knew all along that the libertarians, along with the GOP, wanted to tear down the Federal government but I’m amazed at the agreement among “leftists” that the US government is “evil” and needs to be torn down, too.
It’s “evil” at times. I admit that, but I’d like to fix that WITHOUT tearing it all down and starting over.
Because I have no idea what the Phoenix might look like, but with this bird I can vote, GOTV, donate cash, phone bank, go door-to-door, talk to people at the water cooler…
Put on your headgear. Let the sparring begin. And don’t run away crying if I land one, or I’m gonna call you a pussy.
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“Obama ended torture.”
That’s risible. He merely returned it to the status quo ante bellum. That is to say, now we outsource it again. Hypocritically.
“accuses me of being a fascist”
NOBODY accuses you of this.
The strawman is this: I no longer have the right to legal recourse if the executive, unilaterally and without ANY check or balance, decides that I am an enemy of the US. Obama might not want me dead, Romney might not, but someday, someone MIGHT want me dead, and I have no more rights as a citizen than a cockaroach. This is, without a doubt, the greatest breach of constitutional rights in our history – above and beyond Abe’s ignoring habeas corpus, FDR’s incarcerations, or any other example of executive abuse.
It’s the PRINCIPLE, and here a basic human as well as American right has gone by the wayside – and, as usual, made possible because of FEAR.
“I’m thinking it might be time to get in some practice rebutting fringe LW lunatics on the new titty board.”
I don’t see any fanatics here – just some realists and others who somehow, after years of seeing the “establishment” play us like fiddles, insists in believing that the solution lies within the system.
“It might be “nationalism” due to where I was born, but I LIVE HERE and I haven’t given up, yet. I’d rather not move.”
Well, I DON’T live there (thank gawd), and I wouldn’t give a shit any more if it wasn’t for the fact that what’s happening is GLOBAL. The same false dichotomies, the same AEI-type rhetoric being used to turn back time to the bad old days, and the fucking market running the world instead of citizens. Since the US is, by far, the easiest and most powerful tool for the corporate monsters to use against us, I fight the fight with both hands and on both sides of the Atlantic.
“I admit that, but I’d like to fix that WITHOUT tearing it all down and starting over.”
That’s what the corps, the neolibs, and ultimately even the 3rd Way folks want to do, and their doing it with the support of people who feed, and believe in, the “system”.
The crux of the biscuit is, for me, that it seems ridiculous to believe that the DNC is going to change things. A show of hands would probably support this assertion. Talking about Obama vs Romney seems to be more of a kabuki than anything meaningful given the present situation.
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“NOBODY accuses you of this.”
Uni did.
“I no longer have the right to legal recourse”
If you said “I still don’t” I’d agree with you, and perhaps we could work together to figure out a way to fix it.
But if you think Obama is the first person/POTUS to do something like this you live in an alternate reality.
“I don’t see any fanatics here
Of COURSE you don’t. Because I seem to be the only one left who doesn’t gleefully bash America at every opportunity, I’m the outlier. Hence my “sane guy in the asylum” analogy.
“Well, I DON’T live there (thank gawd), and I wouldn’t give a shit any more if it wasn’t for the fact that what’s happening is GLOBAL.”
Kudos for your honesty. You don’t give a shit about America (and by extension, what happens to Americans like me). It’s my fervent hope that everyone reads your future comments through that lens.
“The crux of the biscuit is, for me, that it seems ridiculous to believe that the DNC is going to change things.”
Absolutely agreed. “Hero worship” isn’t going to get any of us anywhere. It takes work BY US to get the DNC (unless you’ve got a better vehicle) to change, first. Change the powers that be, and you change the path we’re on. But sitting back and throwing spitballs at everything accomplishes nothing. I’m done with it.
“A show of hands would probably support this assertion.”
On this board it would. No point in arguing about that. “Sane guy in the asylum” analogy strikes again.
“Talking about Obama vs Romney seems to be more of a kabuki than anything meaningful given the present situation.
Who’s done that?
I bash rMoney. Everyone else here bashes Obama. But I don’t see any openness to comparing the two. Not in an environment where “the lizard analogy” prevails.
I say anything good about Obama (or Pelosi, or any other Democrat) and the piling on begins. Anyone says “yeah, but remember 2 years ago when Obama did something bad”, and the post ends up with 2487 thumbs up.
I understand what I’m dealing with, here.
My time is extremely limited, these days. I’m not always able to answer every post, and that’s not going to change.
But this bullshit “both parties do it” meme IS going to die, if I can do anything about it.
One party is WAY, WAY worse than the other. One party DOES try to stop them, move things the other direction, only to be thwarted by unprecedented, mean-spirited, un-American (in the sense of “we don’t care who we hurt, we’re gonna shove our agenda up your ass), overwhelming obstruction. Which, when I think about it, isn’t all that different from the “abandon all hope, all ye who enter here” philosophy of the Obama bashers who seem to be advocating “let it burn”.
Like I said, I don’t know what the Phoenix that rises from those ashes will look like. (I suspect it would be MUCH worse.)
Is the DNC going to change things?
Not as long as the American people sit their fat asses on the couch watching teevee.
There’s so much wrong with this country, right now. Too much money in politics. “Media” who are wholly owned corporate entities, more concerned with ratings than truth, willing to give the “the moon is TOO made of green cheese!” faction equal time in the interest of being “fair and balanced”.
Kee-ryste. I can’t believe anyone believes that all you have to do is elect someone and then sit back and watch them magically “fix” everything, when no one even agrees on what needs to be fixed.
You belittle people who actually care about, for example, ensuring women have access to a legal medical procedure. “Nah, that doesn’t matter. Only NEOLIBERAL ECONOMICS matters!!!11!!eleven!!!”
Way to win people to your side, Alvy. Seriously (not). “Don’t bother me with your petty fucking issue. I am the final arbiter of what does and doesn’t matter!!!!111!!eleven!1!!1!”
Don’t tell me, let me guess. Obama’s latest call, supported by Democrats in congress, to let the Bush tax cuts expire on incomes above $250K is “only rhetoric”, right?
But let’s get real for a minnit. Is it “only rhetoric” because they wouldn’t do it, if they could, or because the GOP will do everything in their power to stop them?
Democrats need guidance. The GOP needs to be completely and utterly destroyed.
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“Uni did.”
I didn’t catch that. So I’ll rephrase – I CERTAINLY don’t think that you’re a fascist, quite the contrary.
“But if you think Obama is the first person/POTUS to do something like this you live in an alternate reality.”
Of course I don’t, but I didn’t run on “change and hope”. I call him on things like I’d call a Dubya or a Bubba. But the real difference is that this is the first time that a potus has, cards on the table, taken the power to take anyone’s life without any check or balance.
“Of COURSE you don’t. Because I seem to be the only one left who doesn’t gleefully bash America at every opportunity, I’m the outlier. ”
That’s a Rat Bastard type of comment. Nobody’s bashing uh-murca, just how the system has become an utterly corrupt kabuki.
“Kudos for your honesty. You don’t give a shit about America (and by extension, what happens to Americans like me).”
That’s simply dishonest. I care about the world, which includes the US. What I no longer see as having any influence whatsoever is the whole GOP/DNC game.
“It takes work BY US to get the DNC (unless you’ve got a better vehicle) to change, first. Change the powers that be, and you change the path we’re on. But sitting back and throwing spitballs at everything accomplishes nothing. I’m done with it.”
Well, until you take the money out of the picture, good luck at changing the DNC. It didn’t change in the 1960′s, and since then it’s changed – consistently and increasingly – for the worse. Now we have apathy, in the 1960′s revolution was in the air. If it couldn’t be done then, forget about now.
“On this board it would. No point in arguing about that. “Sane guy in the asylum” analogy strikes again.”
Or perhaps you’re the last one in class to “believe”. Who knows?
“But this bullshit “both parties do it” meme IS going to die, if I can do anything about it.”
Well, once either party forgoes neoliberalism, the CFR and corporate money, it’s going to be mighty difficult for you to kill it.
“One party is WAY, WAY worse than the other.”
That’s very debateable. Rhetoric vs. reality. Lockstep discipline vs. political expediency. Etc.
““let it burn”.”
I don’t think that anyone advocates revolution here. I think that many people, myself, the OWS and 15M movements, and perhaps some other posters, have come to realize that a REAL opposition is a prequisite for real change – and that the DNC, Labour, PSOE, SPD et al don’t have the heart, wish or even idea of making any changes. Kabuki.
“I can’t believe anyone believes that all you have to do is elect someone and then sit back and watch them magically “fix” everything, when no one even agrees on what needs to be fixed.”
Well, I can’t believe that, after Dubya and the tremendous opportunity to change things, someone who ran on hope and change could turn out to be such a let down. The new generation that worked, voted and contributed to Obama’s victory can only be energized out of fear (greater evil) – and certainly not by enthusiasm and hope.
Over here, where we’re in a crisis mode, the opposition PSOE party confronted its leader in order to FORCE him to be more energetic in his opposition to the neolib PP party. The leaders of the socialist and communist labour unions picketed the other day, and were seen having a beer a little later – and had to retreat under police protection because they had been recognized. “Is that how you fight against this mess, having a beer?” screamed the crowd.
“You belittle people who actually care about, for example, ensuring women have access to a legal medical procedure. “Nah, that doesn’t matter. Only NEOLIBERAL ECONOMICS matters!!!11!!eleven!!!””
I have belittled NOBODY. But I -will- say that concentrating on the minutia caused by a greater evil confuses the issue. Forests and trees. Cut the root and the weed will die. To bemoan a weed’s leaf is the best thing a weed could ask for.
“Way to win people to your side, Alvy. Seriously (not). “Don’t bother me with your petty fucking issue. I am the final arbiter of what does and doesn’t matter”
First off, I’m not in a popularity competition. Secondly, your posturing is every bit as being a “final arbiter” as mine is.
“Don’t tell me, let me guess. Obama’s latest call, supported by Democrats in congress, to let the Bush tax cuts expire on incomes above $250K is “only rhetoric”, right?”
Absolutely. He folded before, when he had a better chance of passing it, for political expediency. He returns to an abandoned idea during the electoral campaign. What else could it be?
“Democrats need guidance. The GOP needs to be completely and utterly destroyed.”
I think neoliberalism needs to be destroyed, and the gop and dnc will become viable parties once again.
How the hell do you “guide” a party that’s embraced the third way? How the hell do you “guide” a Goldman Sachs admin?
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My intention is not to be insulting, and gawd knows I respect you in every respect. I have merely lost patience and faith in kabuki democracy and am working on real democracy. Hereabouts I’m active in the 15M movement, and attend the weekly meetings in the neighborhood chapter. If I was in the US I’d be with the OWS folks. But don’t ask me, a student of history and one who has experienced 48 years of the DNC’s faithless, ruthless and insincere posturing to give it yet another chance. That boat’s sailed.
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I don’t think Tim is fascist. I think the us gov is headed that way, including the actions of Obama.
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BTW…
“someday, someone MIGHT want me dead”
Another thing I learned in that abnormal psychology class is that paranoia is almost always accompanied by delusions of grandeur.
No POTUS is going to order a hit on you, Alvy.
Get over yourself.
I’m not sure how to stop it, but ordering a hit on an American living overseas is wrong, even if they’re a shit-stain like “Muhammed” whatever terrorist recruiting scum’s name was. Al-Milwaukee. Whatever. I don’t disagree. But what are YOU doing to get congress to pass a law saying so? To get the matter into a court that will rule the way we believe is correct?
Posting “Obama’s a fuck-head” over and over again on this backwater board ain’t gonna do it.
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“Get over yourself.”
Christ, Timbuk. I’m talking about the potential here.
“But what are YOU doing to get congress to pass a law saying so?”
OWS, not DNC. The DNC could give a flying fuck until it’s the GOP that has the power – and then it might be askeered to change because of motherfucking triangulation.
“Posting “Obama’s a fuck-head” over and over again on this backwater board ain’t gonna do it.”
And neither will a continuing faith in a system, despite SO many disappointments.
I work for change, but am not so naive as to believe that a corporate whore politician of any stripe will be a vehicle for it.
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I missed this:
“now we outsource it again.”
“Spain is intentionally crashing the Euro, which will crash the world economy.”
“All roads in the international child sex slave trade go through Madrid.”
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I didn’t take just one course in psychology. I have a good 24 or so college hours of it behind me.
And you are going off-balance on this election thing. Magnesium! Get a grip.
No matter who gets elected, it will be more of the same. So there is no use stewing about it!
I didn’t see Obama undo any of bushes shit.
So you are going to turn on your friends? Is that well-balanced in psyche, … Simply because they are not going to vote the way u want them to?
I am voting for Paul.
Obama didn’t end torture. his ending torture is NOT a fact, tim.
He made it easier to do move the Caught into countries that torture, from what I have read. I have read he has given more power to rendition. And not from GOP sites, since they don’t complain about it much.He didn’t close down and dismantle gin’to either. It is still up, running and full!
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“I didn’t take just one course in psychology. I have a good 24 or so college hours of it behind me.”
I took more than one, as well. I was just giving an example of something I’d learned, not saying I’m a qualified psychologist.
And you are going off-balance on this election thing. Magnesium! Get a grip.
Now you’re accusing me of being chemically unbalanced/mentally ill. Good grief!
No matter who gets elected, it will be more of the same. So there is no use stewing about it!”
This is just another way of stating the absolutely untrue meme that I’m determined to kill. Who gets elected DOES matter, and not just in the POTUS election. The GOP needs to lose control of the House, as well.
“I didn’t see Obama undo any of bushes shit.”
This isn’t because he didn’t undo any of Bush’s shit. It’s because you refuse to see it or acknowledge it.
So you are going to turn on your friends? Is that well-balanced in psyche, … Simply because they are not going to vote the way u want them to?”
Now, in addition to accusing me of being chemically unbalanced, you’re trying to shame me? And with a false accusation? This is what “friends” do?
I don’t give a shit how any of you vote. I said it months ago. CA and DE will go to Obama. KS and AL will go to that unprincipled, lying sack of shit rMoney.
Regardless, I will kill the “both parties are the same meme”. Period. I don’t care how long it takes, or who I offend in the process.
I’ve posted where most of you could read it for over a decade, now. I have been absolutely consistent in my “anybody but the Republican” attitude. I’ve never wavered in saying that the GOP is an evil party.
So now you all think I’m a liar? Or what? Deluded? Because I just can’t see that two parties that are clearly different are virtually indistinguishable?
Who’s deluded?
I am voting for Paul.
Have fun. If you sleep in and miss out on voting, don’t let it bother you. You won’t make the slightest bit of difference either way.
“Obama didn’t end torture.”
Yes he did.
“his ending torture is NOT a fact, tim.”
Yes it is.
“He made it easier to do move the Caught into countries that torture, from what I have read. I have read he has given more power to rendition. And not from GOP sites, since they don’t complain about it much.”
Kansas is the abortion capital of the world, from what I have read. Unemployment is high in KS because the people there are lazy, from what I have read.
I read it on the internet so it must be true.
Ask yourself “who are we catching, and what information do we need from them so badly that Obama is rendering them to countries that torture?” the next time you read one of those “We’re still torturing under Obama” speculative stories. I’m extremely skeptical that you can find a credible link to Obama rendering anyone to a country for torture, like we could find almost effortlessly under Bush.
“He didn’t close down and dismantle gin’to either. It is still up, running and full!”
I get so tired of having to repeat the truth in the face of such repetitive false statements. I ask myself “how many times do I have to explain this TO THE SAME PEOPLE?”
Obama tried and failed to close Gitmo because the states where he wanted to try the prisoners wouldn’t allow them to be detained there or tried there, and congress, particularly the GOP, fought him tooth an nail every step of the way. This all happened between the time he promised to close it, and when he gave up because it became impossible. He hasn’t put anyone new in Gitmo, either, so it’s not “full”.
I’m sure Mitt rMoney is just fine with Gitmo as it is.
Those are facts.
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“Unlucky victim No. 1 was Raymond Azar, 45, flown from Afghanistan to Alexandria, Va., not to a foreign country. The construction manager for Sima International, a Lebanese outfit that did work for the U.S. military, Azar said he was tortured by his abductors. He might just as well have been flow to Egypt under the Bushies.”
LOL
I hear the asshole who shot up that theater in Aurora isn’t too happy about being caught, either.
Seriously, “Azar said he was tortured by his abductors”? In the town I’m sitting in, right now?
That’s the best you’ve got?
LOL
Oh, and it just gets better…
“Azar’s lawyers said when arrested he was stripped naked, hooded, and subjected to a body cavity search.”
With the exception of the hood, this is what every work release prisoner in America goes through every time they return from work. Torture? LOL
“These procedures—particularly the blindfolding and shackling—correspond to standard Bush-era enhanced interrogation techniques, which President Obama declared banned immediately on his arrival in office,” Horton noted.
LOLOLOL!
Hoisted on your own
petardlinky-poo! Your own article undermines your erroneous assertion!One more time!
which President Obama declared banned immediately on his arrival in office,” Horton noted.
ROFLMAO
Seriously, how long did you have to look to find this link that “proves” Obama is a torturer?
LOL
Grasping at straws already?
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Compare and contrast.
“…stripped naked, hooded, and subjected to a body cavity search.”
Even as the young Afghan man was dying before them, his American jailers continued to torment him.
You’ve either forgotten what torture is, or your zealous need to “prove” “Obama’s no different than Bush” has blurred your vision.
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Actually wrong link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daphne-eviatar/is-proxy-detention-the-ob_b_805998.html .
Not grasping at all. You’re the one with faith, not me.
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Complete fail on your part.
Where’s the part about he was rendered by the American government to a country for torture, again?
Oh yeah, it’s not there.
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““Spain is intentionally crashing the Euro, which will crash the world economy.””
Actually, look to Germany and the UK for culprits.
Otherwise, you have an argument against my assertion that we have returned to outsourcing torture? What’s the euphimism that we’ve been using of late regarding sending unaccused people to other countries to get info out of them without breaking US laws?
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“you have an argument against my assertion that we have returned to outsourcing torture?”
You have an argument against my assertion that international child sex slave trafficking moves through Madrid?
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I am finding that the dems members on these boards, socs and here, are just as politically repressive as the GOP are. Good gods it makes me hate Obama more, because I never saw this horrible behavior until Obama ran. Just like the GOP in horrid behaviors towards those who dissent.
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“it makes me hate Obama more”
I wouldn’t have thought it was possible for you to hate him any more.
For the record, I don’t give a shit who you vote for.
But I will promise you that EVERY time I see someone post “there’s no difference between the GOP and the Democrats” I’m going for the jugular. That meme needs to die, and I’m more than happy to step up and kill it.
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You don’t know my jugular, dear. And I have a high level of detachment to political issues these days.
So we are going to see more of hte same, just like we have seen more of the same. We are headed to a one-government world, which you are unknowingly, unintentionally supporting.
Why such a need for us all to conform to the political agenda that is just as crooked and as power-grabbing as the GOP?
I contend that the divisiveness of the American political parties serves a greater and more sinister agenda than that of the political parties themselves. There will be revolution.
I don’t want you mad or angry.
Neither, unless expressed sincerely and let-go, are healthful. You cannot healthfully maintain this anger. Get your B-Vit.s, your D3, your K+ and Mg.What you can do with that anger is to turn it into a vision of the world you want to see. THERE is your power. THERE, in that specific action, is your ability to change the world.
You cannot change us. You can change your vision for the world you want to see in the future. Dream big!
I x V – R
Imagination times vividness equals reality.THAT, dear sir, is your true power, your true ability to co-create.
I will not get too political from here on out. I want you healthy and happy.
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“You have an argument against my assertion that international child sex slave trafficking moves through Madrid?”
I see no need to sidestep the issue. Why do you?
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“I see no need to sidestep the issue.”
OK, then. Defend Madrid against my ridiculous assertion. PROVE that international child sex slave trafficking doesn’t move through Madrid.
Or admit it’s true.
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“OK, then. Defend Madrid against my ridiculous assertion. PROVE that international child sex slave trafficking doesn’t move through Madrid.”
As far as I know, it might just do that.
Now, just admit that on the fundamentals, there’s nary a dif between the GOP and DNC.
CFR? Check.
Neoliberal economics? Check.
Similar foreign policy? Check.
Extraordinary renditions? Check.
Tax cuts for recovery? Check.
Lack of government transparency? Check.
Outsourcing? Check.
MIC? Check.
Deregulation ubber alles? Check.
Lack of accountability? Check.
Wallstreet whores? Check.
Corporate welfare? Check.
Etc. etc. etc.-
CFR? I have no idea what this is.
Neoliberal economics? Nope. The America Reinvests Act (stimulus) was too small because of the GOP, but it was NOT “Neoliberal”. Raising taxes on the top 2% isn’t “Neoliberal”. Regulating banks and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau aren’t “Neoliberal”.
Similar foreign policy? Nope.
Extraordinary renditions? Nope.
Tax cuts for recovery? Yup. Middle class tax cuts are CLASSIC Keynesian stimulus.
Lack of government transparency? Nope.
Outsourcing? WTF are you talking about?
MIC? Yeah, right. Obama and the Democrats are going to dismantle the MIC in 4 years. Get real. You’re grasping at straws, here.
Deregulation ubber alles? Absolutely untrue. See “Dodd Frank”.
Lack of accountability? Ridiculous assertion. See “Madrid is center of child sex slavery.”
Wallstreet whores? Democrats are responsible for this? How so?
Corporate welfare? See “Wallstreet whores”.
You’re seriously flailing about, now. It gives me hope that the malicious lie that “both parties do it/both parties are the same” will die sooner rather than later.
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“CFR? I have no idea what this is.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_Foreign_Relations
“Neoliberal economics? Nope. The America Reinvests Act (stimulus) was too small because of the GOP, but it was NOT “Neoliberal”
Basing so much of it on tax cuts is certainly neoliberal.
“Regulating banks and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau aren’t “Neoliberal”.”
Regulating banks? ROFLOL! http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jun2009/pers-j18.shtml
“Similar foreign policy? Nope.”
Actually, very similar. All the original hype has worn off and our policies towards most nations have hardly changed at all. Unless we’re throwing drones at them, of course.
“Extraordinary renditions? Nope.”
You deny that we still use them?
“Tax cuts for recovery? Yup. Middle class tax cuts are CLASSIC Keynesian stimulus”
No. It may be a Keynesian fiscal policy, but for recovery the classic stimulus would be investment in labour-intensive projects. Tax cuts were the largest “investment” in the recovery plan, and the investment in infrastructure was not only inadequate, but got lost on its way through the states.
To make things worse, Obama and the DNC have taken up the GOP talking point of spending cuts as their own.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/06/the-obama-keynes-mystery/
http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/04/news/economy/meltzer_keynes.fortune/
“Lack of government transparency? Nope.”
Say wha? http://www.google.es/#hl=es&gs_nf=1&cp=10&gs_id=12&xhr=t&q=obama+transparency&pf=p&safe=off&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=obama+tran&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=90f9971df2932ca5&biw=1344&bih=693
“MIC? Yeah, right. Obama and the Democrats are going to dismantle the MIC in 4 years. Get real. You’re grasping at straws, here.”
My point is the similarity between the parties. The point stands.
“See “Dodd Frank”.”
You mean the bill written by banks that allows banks to oversee themselves?
“Lack of accountability? Ridiculous assertion”
Who’s in jail because of the bank crisis, torture, etc.?
“Wallstreet whores? Democrats are responsible for this? How so?”
As I stated above, it’s about similarities.
“You’re seriously flailing about, now”
From my perspective it’s you doing the flailing.
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A hit piece by a known Obama bashing “journalist” on Rupert Murdoch’s paper about an all-Republican committee investigating “secrecy” in the Obama administration?
Whatever, dude.
I mean, I try to avoid shooting the source, but Kim Strassel reporting on Cliff Stearns’
committee meetingwitch hunt as proof of ANYTHING? You were just joking, right?
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I didn’t see anything in your CFR link about Democrats, or why I should care if they talk to them.
“Basing so much of it on tax cuts is certainly neoliberal.”
I’m not sure what “so much of it” means, but it’s putting country before party. It’s truly unfair to view Obama’s Presidency without ANY consideration of the drastic turn toward the radical that the GOP has taken since Reagan. Those tax cuts were put in there by congress to get GOP votes, and then they voted against the largest middle class tax cut in history (middle class tax cuts are stimulative), anyway.
“Regulating banks? ROFLOL!”
This isn’t about whether you got everything you wanted in a bill, Alvy. It’s about whether or not there’s “a difference” between Republicans and Democrats. Fact is, Democrats proposed regulations they could get past the obstructionism of the GOP, and the GOP opposes regulation. That’s a difference, and it puts another galic soaked stake in the heart of the malicious lie.
“Actually, very similar (foreign policy). All the original hype has worn off and our policies towards most nations have hardly changed at all. Unless we’re throwing drones at them, of course.”
Oh really? Who’s Biden cherry-picking data on so that Obama can sell the country on another unecessary war this August? Enlighten me.
How long do you think we’ll be occupying Libya and Egypt after our invasion of those countries? Oh, wait…
“You deny that we still use them (extraordinary renditions)?”
I sure do. See my earlier reply.
“Lack of government transparency? Nope.”
Your link didn’t work.
“You mean the bill written by banks that allows banks to oversee themselves?
No, I mean the bill written by Dodd and Frank. You know, Democrats. Where’s the Republican regulation bill?
Oh, that’s right. The GOP opposes ALL regulation on EVERYTHING (except abortion and gay marriage).
Another difference.
“Who’s in jail because of the bank crisis, torture, etc.?”
OK, Mr. Lawyer, what are you going to charge them with, and how are you going to prove it?
“As I stated above, it’s about similarities.”
No, it’s NOT about “similarities”. It’s about “there’s no differernce”. As in “they’re identical”. As in “there’s no reason to vote for one over the other, EVER.”
Which is bullshit.
“From my perspective it’s you doing the flailing.”
I will say that you’ve calmed down considerably since you realized you can’t prove that anyone with any credibility, anywhere, on the right, on the left, in the middle, on some fringe blog that no one’s heard of, has said a single word about Obama rendering prisoners for torture since 2009. Wanting to appear rational when your back’s against the wall is a good instinct to have.
Maybe you’re starting to feel the pressure to give up this ridiculous meme?
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“Outsourcing? WTF are you talking about”
Missed that. Outsourcing of many military functions.
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“Outsourcing of many military functions.”
Like what? Driving supply trucks? Cooking? Medical care?
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If ya’all keep posting that “there’s no difference” between Democrats and Republicans, or between rMoney and Obama, I’m going to hold you down and start cutting off your hair with a scissors until you apologize for continuing to spread this malicious lie.
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I already agree that the targeted killing needs to be outlawed by congress.
But it’s not rendering prisoners for torture.
Obama ended torture. Your own link said so.
That’s a real difference.
I have to go to work, now.
Keep googling. Maybe if you throw enough shit at the wall eventually something will stick, but don’t even TRY to pretend it’s “principled”.
ROFLMAO
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“Maybe if you throw enough shit at the wall eventually something will stick, but don’t even TRY to pretend it’s “principled”.”
Fine one to talk. Or are you going to use the sex trade going through Madrid again as an “argument”?
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You really didn’t get that?
I have no idea if the child sex slave trade goes through Madrid, or not. The point is that it’s REALLY easy to make inflammatory, unsupported statements. It’s not so easy when you don’t even have a clue where the guy making these incendiary statements is getting his (mis)information.
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“But it’s not rendering prisoners for torture”
So we send people to Egypt only to avoid legal issues, and we trust them not to be tortured? Or do we just look the other way as we used to?
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OK, I think we’ve given this one enough time. After all that furious googling all you could find was speculative links from 2009. This begs the obvious question. If Obama’s been rendering people to be tortured for the past 3 years, why the sudden silence from “the libruhl media”? Where is Greenwald on this? Not a peep from Krugman? Georges Monbiot suddenly decided not to look behind the curtain? Not even ONE moron on FreeRepublic thought it would better to bash Obama for his “broken promise” than to continue to defend torture?
Bush and Cheny (Republicans) tortured people, and lots and lots of GOPpers defended the practice. Obama said he’d end it, and he did.
I’d say that’s a “difference”.
And here’s the thing. When the meme is “there’s no difference between the parties”, all it takes is one difference to prove that it’s a malicious lie.
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BTW, I’m going to give you a pass on finding a statement by rMoney about whether or not he’d be our next “torture President”. We both know the man’s too terrified to take a stand on anything, being trapped between the 4-5% of “independents” (code for “too stupid to have an opinion”) and his teabagger base, who are crazier than shit-house rats.
He might have said “hell yeah, I’ll torture people” during the debates to please the crazies, but if he did I missed it. At any rate, he’ll never take a stand on torture, now that he’s the nominee. Unlike Obama.
But, I’ll give you bonus points if you can find a Republican congressman, other than John McCain, who says torture is wrong.
Otherwise…
Whups!
Another difference!
Cuz buddy lemme tell ya, I got a list of Democrats a mile long.
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Republican Congressman Scolded After Drinking and Nudity in Israel
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/republican-congressman-scolded-after-drinking-and-nudity-in-israel/A group of House Republicans visiting Israel as part of an official Congressional delegation last summer enjoyed a late night of drinking at the Sea of Galilee that included swimming and, in the case of one member, a little skinny dipping in the place where the Bible says Jesus walked on water.
The story was first reported by Politico and has been confirmed by ABC News.
House Majority Leader Eric Cantor was on the trip but was not present for the late night antics. When Cantor was told about what happened, according to Republican sources, he was “livid” and called members of the delegation to say the behavior was unacceptable and must never be repeated.
The skinny dipper, according to the sources, was Rep. Kevin Yoder, R-Kansas.
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